Exclusive Webcast: Third Presidential Debate 2008 Video

Exclusive Webcast: Third Presidential Debate 2008 Video Transcript

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>>Campaign 08. CBS news coverage of the final Presidential Debate continues, here again is Katie Couric.

>>Katie Couric: Hi everyone and welcome to our webcast. We call it our after party and it's brought to you tonight by our sponsor the nice people at Intel [Music]. Thank you. If you just watched the final presidential debate you know there is a lot to talk about tonight. We're gonna get to some of your questions with our panel of experts in just a moment. We've also assembled a group, a really nice group I might add, of cooperative but undecided voters and coming up we have two special guests tonight, Senator Hillary Clinton will be with us and later in the webcast Minnesota Governor Tim Palenti. We want to go to Joe the plumber, Joe Wurzelbacher from Toledo, Ohio because Joe is telling me he's got three live trucks parked outside his house, actually from Holland, Ohio, let me correct that, Joe. Was this a bit of a surreal experience hearing your name mentioned not once but twice but almost half a dozen times during the course of this debate, Joe?

>>Joe: Yea, actually surreal is a good word to use for it. It was, yea, I was glad I was able to act as some type of point to where they could sit there and hammer out what they both think and what they wanna say. But ultimately, you know, the important part was the debate.

>>Katie Couric: And again why don't you just reiterate quickly for us Joe, cause I want you to get to your local news stations where you are, how you felt about the statements made by the candidates versus the statements you heard when they were out on the campaign trail talking to you.

>>Joe: One thing I noticed is it seems like Obama changed his mind on offshore drilling which I thought was a good move. I don't know how much he wants to do of it. I'd like to talk to, you know, hear more about that. McCain was solid in his performance. Obama speaks well but one thing that's real important to everyone in America is, you know, talk is talk, you know. He can speak pretty, you know, but there's gotta be action behind it. We've seen McCain, we know his actions, even if you disagree with him at least you know where he stands, McCain or Obama, we're not sure where he stands yet, even after his debates. Like I said, he speaks eloquently, better than I do but I honestly still don't know where he stands. He's said a lot but none of his experience has backed it up. You know, the only experience of seeing his actions are raising our taxes so you know. I'm middle class. I can't have my taxes raised anymore.

>>Katie Couric: Well he supposedly will raise taxes only on people who make over $250,000 a year. Would you be in that category?

>>Joe: Not right now, presently. But, you know, question, so he's gonna do that now for people who make $250,000 a year when's he gonna decide that $100,000 is too much? I mean, you know, you're on a slippery slope here. You vote in somebody who decides that $250,000 and you're rich? $100,000 and you're rich? I mean, where does it end? You know, people gotta ask that question.

>>Katie Couric: Did you just, Joe, explain quickly and we'll let you go, how you met both of the candidates.

>>Joe: I've yet to meet John McCain. Obama came to my neighborhood. My son and I were outside tossing the football and all of a sudden he showed up and there went our football tossing for a while and, you know, neighbors were outside asking him questions and I didn't think they were asking him tough enough questions so I thought, you know, I'll go over there. I've always wanted to ask one of these guys a question and really corner them and getting an answer a question for once instead of tap dancing around it. And unfortunately I asked the question but I still got a tap dance. He was almost as good as Sammy David Jr. [ Laughter ]

>>Katie Couric: Joe Wurzelbacher, I mispronounced your last name earlier, Joe. Maybe you should fill in on Meet The Press, Joe or Face the Nation, I should add. [Laughter] I know they're looking for someone on Meet The Press, that's why I said that. Joe,

>>Joe: I've got opinions and you know, that's it. But, you know, everyone has opinions.

>>Katie Couric: Yea, that's for darn sure. Well, Joe thanks so much for talking with us. I'll let you get outside to your local news reporters and really, I really appreciate your spending some time with us tonight and now everybody knows your name at least, right?

>>Joe: [Laughter] I don't know if that's good or bad but we'll see how the future brings.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, Joe. Thanks very much. What did you think, Jeff, by the way about this whole devise where Joe the plumber became Joe six pack in essence?

>>Jeff: I thought it was the start of a movie. [Laughter] There was a movie, I'll be a film critic, a very bad political movie called "Swing Vote" where the entire election comes down to one guy, Kevin Costner. And I thought you could see how in the minds of the creative Hollywood type, Joe would now become the most important person in America. [Laughter] And everybody would listen to him and that the candidates would send him gift baskets attempting to bribe him, attempting to threaten him

>>Katie Couric: Really cute little daughter, right? I saw on the previews.

>>Jeff: I have to say this is the, actually Joe is an extremely articulate well informed guy and that's a very encouraging thing. You know, the spinmeisters behind politicians who always say find a symbol, you know, let's not get abstracted and boy did they ever, you know, we're talking Dancing with the Stars next week, Katie. [ Laughter ]

>>Katie Couric: I know that Chip Reed and Dean Reynolds have to get going momentarily but I'm just curious if you guys could tell us sort of the strategy. We're less than three weeks away from the election, Dean, what is the strategy for the campaign going forward?

>>Dean Reynolds: It's very, very careful. Play safe. Don't go for any hail Mary passes. I mean, look at the polls, Katie. They're way ahead according to these polls and so they're going to be very cautious. What you saw tonight at the debate was a very cautious candidate. He didn't really rock the boat. He was cool as a cucumber just as he is in most of these encounters. That's what you're gonna see. They're just gonna keep on keepin on the way they've been and let John McCain adjust or recalibrate his campaign from day to day.

>>Katie Couric: Is there any danger, Dean, to becoming too cautious as this campaign continues that the Obama campaign may seem complacent? >Dean Reynolds: Sure there is. Sure, there's abundant danger in conducting a campaign that way but you know, as long as your opponent is throwing proposal after proposal out there and many of them are getting panned from the left as well as from the right, there's really not the need for you to get out there and put your own platform out there. You just keep doing what you've been doing and let the other guy suffer the consequences of his activism.

>>Katie Couric: Ok, let's go to Chip Reed. So what is the McCain strategy? I mean, obviously he needs to continue to be disciplined and yet aggressive and that's a tough balance. Isn't it?

>>Chip Reed: It sure is, Katie. And you know obviously the Ayers issue came up, the ACORN issue came up tonight, John Lewis comments about George Wallace came up. I'm not convinced that's gonna be a big part of his speeches coming up though because remember he got rid of that. He just dumped that from his repertoire in part because of the reaction from the crowd which was pretty severe in some cases. There really some taunts and shouts from the crowd saying some very negative things about Barack Obama. I'm not sure he's gonna be willing to go back to that. I think Bob Shiefer brought it up in a way where it was really unavoidable. You know, we all debated ahead of time whether he was going to bring it up or not. I think Bob Shiefer made it impossible for him not to bring it up and he did but I'm not convinced that he's gonna stay with it. We'll have to see. I think he is going to be more aggressive in the days ahead and I think Joe the plumber is certainly going to be a part of that and they believe that this brought this in to peoples living rooms where they could understand taxes in a way that they might not have understood his arguments about Barack Obama increasing taxes before. He certainly has to be more aggressive. He's gotta shake things up. But we'll have to wait and see if he really is gonna stick with these really controversial personal attacks against Barack Obama.

>>Katie Couric: But no mention of Jeremiah Wright.

>>Chip Reed: That's right.

>>Katie Couric: And there was some speculation that might come up tonight and it did not.

>>Chip Reed: There are a lot of people, a lot of people urging him to get back to that. He has said absolutely not, he's not going to do it and at this point it looks like he's going to stick by that.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, Chip Reed and Dean Reynolds as always guys thank you both so much. We'll be talking to you tomorrow on the evening news, I'm sure. Thanks a lot. We wanna go to our lonely uncommitted voter, Dennis, from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who we didn't get to earlier tonight and Dennis I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on what you heard tonight.

>>Dennis: You know, the candidates made an awful lot of promises about things they could do, things that they'd change, things that they'd fund. But in actuality the funding part of this is the real key to getting it done. Most of the time our politicians underestimate how much it's gonna cost to do these things and the amount of money they can save in doing them. So as a consequence there's a big gap between what is said to please the voters, which is what they were doing, and how they plan to get to the end game which is how you fund it and how you make it work. Keeping in mind, congress isn't exactly the leader of the pack in finding ways of cutting money and they're the ones who are going to, in the final analysis, helping make this work, whichever candidate gets in there.

>>Katie Couric: So it sounds like you were kind of turned off by both candidates? Is that accurate?

>>Dennis: Yea, you know, there's things in both candidates which are good and there's things in both candidates which are bad. If I could throw them together and get one good one out of it

>>Katie Couric: If you morph work them somehow

>>Dennis: All four of them, you know, there's about 20 percent I'd get about an 80 percent candidate out of all of it. [Laughter]

>>Katie Couric: Alright, let me tell you what Gail wrote. She wrote to us on the internet. This is really the most depressing debate to date. My question is, how did we get to this point and how will we ever overcome the issues if neither candidate seems capable of solving anything in this short amount of time they can be in office? Are some of you as discouraged as Dennis obviously is following this debate in terms of the capability of either person to actually cure the ills of our country? Andrea.

>>Andrea: I know when we were here last week somebody had emailed in and said, when are you going to decide? They were so disgusted with us that we were undecided and I think at this point I would rather hold my head high and say, none of the above. As an American if that's the point I've come to like he said if we could roll them all together we might have one good candidate. If you truly in your heart feel that way it's like anything else. Why should you settle? If you truly don't think that he or she is the person for the job then don't pull that lever. And sorry it's a wasted vote but if you truly don't feel that then you shouldn't vote.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, well some people might disagree with you to the responsibility but

>>Andrea: I mean just not vote for that person if you don't feel they're the one.

>>Katie Couric: Rosemary, hold on two seconds because we have a guest who we booked and he's a very tough guy to book because he always picks Charlie Rose over our webcast. Can you imagine? Anyway, Mark Halperon is Editor at large and Senior Political analyst for Time magazine. His blog is called, The Page. Now before the debate, Mark, you wrote that Sarah Palin was setting high expectations for this night saying that Bill Ayers should be a topic and that we need to know more about who Obama is. Now on your page cast this morning you raised three questions for us to think about tonight and I'm gonna throw them right back to you. Ok, Mark? Ok. How did John McCain perform tonight? Did he seize the moment and advance his campaign? What say you, Mark Halperon?

>>Mark Halperon: First of all you should spend your day doing something besides reading my work and watching my videos. A little advice.

>>Katie Couric: [Laughter] Ok, thank you.

>>Mark Halperon: I thought for the first 40 minutes he did exactly the best he could do. I said last debate he had to have the best debate he could possibly have to advance his cause. He didn't in the last debate. For the first 40 minutes in this one he did. Will it transform the race? No. But I think he probably reached at least some voters tonight and he did himself proud. He didn't go scathingly negative. I thought he was very in control. He was at his best for 40 minutes.

>>Katie Couric: For 40 minutes and then what happened after that, Mark?

>>Mark Halperon: Well, I think he got, I think some of those ticks that have put him off the rails in some of the earlier debates, a little bit too angry, looking a little bit, dare I say it, a little too old, and also not in the same rhythm. I thought the questions that Bob asked, they were all great questions, I don't know if you've already said this but Bob did a great job. But the questions Bob asked played really well for McCain and every time it was Joe the plumber kind of sitting like the guardian angel up on McCain's shoulder. I think he was doing well. When Joe the plumber receded as a character, maybe went to the restroom or wherever he disappeared to, McCain lost it a little bit. Whether that 40 minutes counts more than the back half, we'll have to see.

>>Katie Couric: I thought he seemed exasperated though. I didn't think he seemed that angry. I thought he just seemed frustrated and exasperated. That's how I would describe his facial expression. Let me ask you the second question. Will the press see this debate as a battle of ideas of focus on the horse race?

>>Mark Halperon: Unfortunately, I think for Senator McCain and this is just the nature particularly of the last debate this close to election day, everybody behind me all of our colleagues are thinking it didn't transform the race. No one expects the polls tomorrow to show McCain having substantially closed the gap. So, even though on issues like taxes, on issue like experience I thought again he had his best side by side performance to date. I don't think the press is gonna cover it that way. There were a couple moments particularly when he forcefully said to Obama, I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago. He was strong and I think he'll get some play on that in the coming news cycle but again I think mostly to his disadvantage this will be covered as a horse race that is won where Obama has such a big lead still.

>>Katie Couric: Did Obama push back hard enough tonight? That's another question you posed to your readers, including me. What did you think?

>>Mark Halperon: I don't think he did. I think he came in here saying I come in with a lead, I'm gonna leave with a lead. I think he did that successfully in a since he still has the lead but so cautious, themeless I thought throughout the night, his weakest performance, particularly in those first 40 minutes, that I think he's lead is going to be narrowed. Maybe I'm wrong but that's my guess. He played it very safe. He didn't go after McCain very much and on defense I thought he was weak, 40 minutes, again particularly when McCain was strong Obama was weak. I thought Obama looked bad. If the person who did his makeup tries to touch his face again he should slap them away. He looked, I thought, horrible and tired and distracted and he was at his worse in the beginning, kind of peevish. Looked almost like he was unhappy to be there.

>>Katie Couric: But after that 40 minutes, because you keep talking about the initial 40 minutes, did things seem to change for Barack Obama and go downhill for McCain? Is that what you're suggesting?

>>Mark Halperon: That is exactly what I am suggesting that after that 40 minutes Obama got better. McCain, I thought, his attacks were a little bit less sharp, a little bit less direct again, less Joe the plumber although he did come back in the second act with at least a cameo. Obama is calm and cool and that can be great in a crisis in some of the earlier debates I think it contrasted well. When it looks like it's arrogant or looks like it's someone who doesn't want to be there I don't think it serves him well. And again in the beginning of the debate that's how it looked to me and again, tired and a bad makeup job. You may not understand this Katie but for some people on camera with a bad makeup job tired, horrible.

>>Katie Couric: [Laughter] Mark, been there, done that. I totally understand what that's all about. Well, do you still have time to get to Charlie Rose, Mark?

>>Mark Halperon: I do and I'll see you over there metaphorically.

>>Katie Couric: Anyway, Mark Halperon, thanks so much for talking with us tonight. Good to have you on our webcast. We are now joined, I understand, she is hooked up and ready to go, Senator Hillary Clinton. Hey, Senator Clinton. Good evening.

>>Hillary Clinton: Hi, Katie. How are you doing?

>>Katie Couric: I'm fine. Thanks so much for joining our little webcast.

>>Hillary Clinton: Oh, I'm glad to.

>>Katie Couric: We call it the little webcast that couldn't. [Laughter] You know, it's actually the wave of the future and we're sponsored by Intel tonight, senator. [Music]

>>Hillary Clinton: That is terrific. Well, I have been following what you've been doing and I really think that you are breaking through and probably getting people to log on who might not have otherwise been involved. So congratulations.

>>Katie Couric: Well, let's hope so, Senator. So let me ask you. I'm not gonna ask you who won this debate, Senator Clinton. But what do you think your friend John McCain did well tonight?

>>Hillary Clinton: Well, Barack Obama won, Katie and now it's three for three and I think that he's closing the deal in terms of voters perceptions and voters are closing the books on the last eight years of this republican administration and don't wanna see anymore republican policies like the ones that have failed so miserably.

>>Katie Couric: Well, what do you think about Senator McCain initially, Senator Clinton? Do you think he did well? I mean, many people here, we have a group of uncommitted voters. We just heard Mark Halperon say he thought he was very, very strong particularly, well he was strong in the first 40 minutes of the debate.

>>Hillary Clinton: Well, I think though that the debate comes at the end of a period where voters have been able to draw their own conclusions about which of these two candidates would be the steadier, better leader when it comes to the serious problems facing our country. I don't think moments of strength in a debate necessarily are going to change the perceptions that voters have created based on the facts they've seen before they're own eyes. So today again I believe that Senator Obama has demonstrated his cool, calm, collected approach to the intense back and forth of politics. He has a comprehensive plan about the economy and that's what voters are looking for and I think he delivered.

>>Katie Couric: Now last night a group of about 20 of your supporters met with Governor Palin here in New York. They raised more than a half a million dollars for the McCain ticket. Did you call any of them, Linda Rothschild and others and discourage them from backing John McCain?

>>Hillary Clinton: I haven't talked to any of them in quite some time. Obviously they've made their decision but they're a very small minority of the people who supported me who are now very enthusiastically supporting the Obama Biden ticket. I see that as I crisscross the country on behalf of Barack and Joe. Everywhere I go people are really making up their minds in a thoughtful way because they know how much is at stake in this election and overwhelmingly, not just my voters but democrats, independents and a lot of republicans are concluding that Barack Obama and Joe Biden provide a much better set of policies and the kind of leadership that America deserves right now.

>>Katie Couric: Now Senator Clinton as you know the next President, whoever that is, will inherit a deficit greater than half a trillion dollars, a debt larger than 10 trillion dollars and many of our undecided voters here in our studio brought this up, Senator Clinton, where are these candidates going to get the money to fund all the programs they're promising?

>>Hillary Clinton: Well, Katie, it's heartbreaking that just eight short years ago we had a balanced budget and a surplus which would have been an incredible benefit to our country in dealing with all kinds of difficult problems. That's all gone. It's been squandered because of the misplaced priorities of the Bush administration. And I know from personal experience because after the 92 election we learned that the deficit was much greater than anybody had thought and it requires leadership. It took a democratic president to get our country back on a fiscally responsible track, back in the 90's, it's gonna take a democratic president to do the same. And I have a lot of confidence in the people around Senator Obama, in his own understanding of what is going to be required and of course he's going to stay committed to his priorities and his values but he's going to deal with the very difficult dilemma that he will be left with. And it's heartbreaking but I have every confidence that he's going to navigate us through these difficult waters with a sure hand.

>>Katie Couric: Senator Clinton how do you feel about people comparing you to Governor Sarah Palin as candidates?

>>Hillary Clinton: Well, we're both women and I think that is exciting to a lot of people as Barack said tonight in speaking about Governor Palin but it is clear that the McCain Palin ticket just doesn't offer the change from what we've already had the past eight years or the new ideas and the leadership that America's looking for. So, I think a lot of people can feel excited about the candidacy of a women running for vice president, certainly in 1984 a lot of democrats felt equally excited when we had a women as our vice presidential candidate but conclude that that's not a sufficient reason to vote the McCain Palin ticket and that's what I think American's are concluding and that's why I believe Senator Obama's going to have a great victory on November 4.

>>Katie Couric: And I know your folks are telling us to wrap, Senator Clinton, but I know you've been asked this before. Why do you think Sarah Palin has an action figure and you have a nutcracker?

>>Hillary Clinton: [Laughter] I don't have any idea, Katie.

>>Katie Couric: Well, you must have some idea. I mean, do you feel like, oh the injustice of it all?

>>Hillary Clinton: [Laughter] No I just think it's very funny, you know I laugh a lot about what happens in politics these days. But you know, maybe someday I'll have an action figure. Who knows, I mean, you know I still have aspirations.

>>Katie Couric: A girl can dream, can't she?

>>Hillary Clinton: That's right. Exactly.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, well Senator Hillary Clinton thanks so much for joining us on our webcast. Come back if we do this again and come back and do an interview with me on the evening news, will you?

>>Hillary Clinton: Thanks Katie. I'll look forward to that.

>>Katie Couric: Ok, thanks Senator Clinton.

>>Hillary Clinton: Ok, bye.

>>Katie Couric: Dee Dee and Dan let's go back to you. I don't really know quite where to take this after the nutcracker action figure but Jeff Greenfield apparently has something to add. Go ahead, Jeff.

>>Jeff Greenfield: Dan, I'm wondering if you're surprised at the spread in our poll given the fact that a lot of people like Mark, like a lot of our uncommitted's thought that in the first half, particularly, McCain had his strongest performance and the numbers are quite staggering. Can you explain this?

>>Dan: Quite frankly these polls I've had a lot of skepticism about and I think people's judgment they kind of put on a hat almost like they're an Olympic judge as opposed to how they're actually gonna vote once they get into the box. You know, actually though I've also been somewhat surprised by the action that McCain is performing amongst undecided voters and others a little better than even I anticipated. So I do agree with you though, Jeff, that you know, humanizing some of these things with our friend Joe was a smart move by them. And it was also smart strategically for them to make the comments that he did about George W. Bush. We all understand that's the elephant in the room, as they say, and you know doing that in a way like that it's concise and it cuts through the clutter. I thought that was smart by them. So he was feisty, he was aggressive, at times I thought that he did show frustration but you know what, you know maybe the public is resonating with that. It's one of those years where maybe conventional wisdom like that gets turned on its head.

>>Katie Couric: Let me go to Dee Dee because Dee Dee, Adam in Virginia wrote, we want to get to some of our web questions, why does Senator Obama continue to equate McCain with the Bush legacy? Is the answer to that because it's affective?

>>Dee Dee: That's part of the answer to be sure. The American people, you know, are done with the Bush administration. President Bush has historically low approval ratings and more than 90 percent of American's think the countries on the wrong track and somebody is responsible for that and certainly one of those people is President Bush. But also because I think Senator McCain has not done a particularly effective job in a lot of cases at separating himself and explained how the American people how his tax policies how his healthcare policies would be substantially different. Yes, he'll provide a $5,000 dollar tax credit for people but that not only threatens millions of people who have employee sponsored insurance it does nothing for people who right now have preexisting conditions and can't get healthcare. So there's a lot of places and I think Senator Obama did a good job of keep coming back to those where the McCain policies look an awful lot like the Bush policies.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, Dee Dee, thanks. You know, Jeff, it seems like taxes, that's this year's boogey man in these debates and of course John McCain is trying to paint Barack Obama who is going to raise taxes at a time when the economy is struggling. Can you be the truth police first of all on that and then talk about the effectiveness of that line of attack?

>>Jeff: I can tell you that the fact check folks have found fault with both McCain and Obama. But I can say as a political matter that for the better part of 30 years the republicans have made huge inroads into traditionally democratic middle class voters first on culture and values but also by painting the democrats as the tax raisers. Read my lips, no new taxes. And that's why Obama keeps coming back and saying, I will cut taxes for 95 percent of the country. From what I have seen of the fact checkers McCain's more assertive notions about Obama, particularly he would raise taxes for everybody over $42,000 dollars a year. That's just wrong. You know, there doesn't seem to be any doubt among the independent fact checkers but it is clear that when you look at where the discontent is with the Bush administration on the part of people in the middle, if McCain can persuade them that in the middle of this crisis Obama will raise all of your taxes or most of them, that's the strongest point he has.

>>Katie Couric: But having said that, it is for people making over $250,000 a year and I guess the question is, you know is that a sizeable chunk and should those people not have to pay additional taxes?

>>Jeff: Well you heard Joe, our friend Joe the plumber

>>Katie Couric: Right, right

>>Jeff: make a very valid point, well if he starts at $250,000

>>Katie Couric: Will it be a slippery slope?

>>Jeff: What happens? And you know, are we also talking about social security taxes for people making more than say 100 and something thousand? So you can understand, there's such skepticism in this country about what the government, you know, I'm from the government I'm here to help.

>>Katie Couric: Right

>>Jeff: Not many people believe that.

>>Katie Couric: And so much nervousness about the economy right now. People are really, really worried.

>>Jeff: I'd say a drop of 733 points which I think is roughly a trillion dollars in the Dow probably that has concentrated people's attention to the fact that we are in a really historically difficult time and it's I think that's why so many people are saying to both candidates, you know, do you see the elephant in this room?

>>Katie Couric: Cheryl Atkisson, I know you've got some more instant poll results.

>>Cheryl Atkisson: I do.

>>Katie Couric: Do you want to just review those with us?

>>Cheryl Atkisson: Yea, and stop me if you want to talk about any of them. I just wanted to review that among these 507 uncommitted voters more of them thought Obama won the debate. The number was 22 percent said McCain did, 53 percent said Obama and to review that twice as many of the uncommitted voters who committed because of the debate went for Barack Obama than went for John McCain. But some of the new numbers talking about the economy, do you think John McCain would make the right decisions about the economy? He improved during this debate but look at Obama's figures. He also improved by about the same margin. So they both did, you know, pretty well on the economy showing some slight improvement. And also do you think John McCain understands your needs and problems? He went up because of the debate but look, so did Barack Obama. He went up because of the debate again by about the same margin. Barack Obama ends higher than John McCain and then two more quick ones. Can John McCain be trusted to handle a crisis? This is where he's very strong. He started out at 78 percent and went up to 82. Barack Obama started out at only 50 but he improved. He can be trusted to handle a crisis 63 percent said after the debate. And lastly, has your opinion of John McCain changed for the better? Well 30 percent said yes after the debate. Forty four percent said no change. And Barack Obama 46 percent said their opinion of him changed for the better because of tonight's debate.

>>Jeff: That's a huge spread in terms of better worse, you know, McCain, yea, more people said better than worse but 40, what was that, about four point spread and with Obama it was 36 point spread. I found these numbers quite striking cause it suggests to me that the country is closer to a decision so that maybe they saw the debate through the prism of that decision they're getting ready to make.

>>Katie Couric: And so I guess what I'm hearing from everyone, even though I think you all weren't, most of you are still uncommitted except for Val and Jennifer leaning toward Obama, Tyler leaning toward McCain, Andrea were you leaning anyway? Anybody else leaning? Judy?

>>Judy: A week ago I was leaning toward Obama. After tonight I'm leaning toward McCain.

>>Katie Couric: And how about you, Michael?

>>Michael: I'm leaning toward McCain at this point.

>>Katie Couric: Ok and Dan you are as well?

>>Dan: Going that way tonight.

>>Katie Couric: Rosemary?

>>Rosemary: Could I say a rational reason why some of us are still not committed?

>>Katie Couric: Sure

>>Rosemary: As a former teacher in school board member I was delighted to see the emphasis upon education. From both of them I really, really liked Obama pushing for early childhood education. That I really liked. But then on another issue, NAFTA, I'm terribly distressed that he wants unilaterally to correct NAFTA. So here we are. I mean, I like this, but I don't like that. But back to what I said originally the core issue is this terrible deficit. I like trying to say hey, let's hold it. So, I'm probably leaning toward McCain now.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, Rosemary thanks. We're joined now by Governor Tim Palenti of Minnesota. Governor, thank you for joining us.

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Thank you, Katie. Happy to be with you.

>>Katie Couric: So you know, let me ask you the same question I asked Senator Clinton but in reverse. What do you think Barack Obama did well tonight?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Well, as always he's very eloquent and he's got smooth words and smooth talk and the like and so I give him credit for that. But he and Senator McCain have very significant differences on policy issues and so it's not just whether you're a smooth talker it's what's behind that talk and John McCain's life is a testimony to not just talkin the talk but walkin the walk.

>>Katie Couric: You know the latest poll out of your state governor shows a double digit lead for Barack Obama. Now the two candidates were tied just a few weeks ago so what's happened in Minnesota in your view?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Well we've always had an uphill battle in Minnesota because it hasn't voted for a republican for president since 1972 but it's gotten more competitive over the years. I think Senator McCain just has to continue to emphasis his leadership on the economy, his proposal and plans for the economy and the fact that he's got the record to back it up. You know, Senator Obama, again doesn't have the record to back up what he's supporting so Senator McCain's gonna have to highlight his experience and his record and it's a very good record.

>>Katie Couric: Well, how do you think he can reverse the trend about voters feeling that Barack Obama could handle the economy? I think he had a 12 point advantage over John McCain in our latest CBS news poll. How can John McCain counter that with less than three weeks to go?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Well, I think you saw some of it tonight in the form of Joe the plumber and people can't always follow all the details of these policy proposals back and forth but when you have somebody like Joe the plumber from Toledo, Ohio, a real person saying you know, I'd like to buy a small business and expand it and grow it but he'd be less likely to do that under Barack Obama's leadership and plans, that's a pretty telling measurement. It's a personal measurement and one that I think people can relate to So Joe the plumber, I think this debate tonight is gonna be remembered as Joe the plumber debate is signaling and saying I prefer John McCain and there's a reason for that, Katie.

>>Katie Couric: Are you worried at all, Governor Palenti, that John McCain may be perceived as too negative and it may hurt him? In our recent poll again people seemed to be turned off by his attacks against Barack Obama rather than helping him.

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Well I think these attacks and ads back and forth have to be fair and I think the one that's gets the most attention recently, for example, is the Bill Ayers question and Senator McCain has tried to say, you know, we realize that he was doing his bombing as a terrorist when Senator Obama was eight years old but what was left unanswered even tonight is what was Barack Obama doing in Bill Ayers living room in the mid 1990's allegedly launching his political career? That doesn't, that goes to the issue of judgment. If you're gonna pick a president, a leader of the free world, the commander and chief of the United States military, asking questions and getting fair answers about judgment I think is ok. So it's an important question.

>>Katie Couric: You were considered for the V.P. slot Governor Palenti, in closing, how do you think Governor Sarah Palin is doing out on the campaign trail? What's your assessment?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Well, she's brought a lot of energy to the McCain Palin ticket. At the rallies there's a lot of passion, there's a lot of energy. She has energized the republican base and I think appeals to people beyond the republican base so I think Senator McCain is very satisfied and excited about her pick and it seems like the republican party and many voters are beyond the party as well.

>>Katie Couric: She has in the view of some taken on the role of an attack dog. Would you feel comfortable, because I know you were considered in that same role?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: [Laughter] Well, I think being the vice presidential candidate you have a role to make the case against your opponent but also to promote your own case but it has to be fair. People don't like cheap shots as I think you are implying and so within the range of things are fair and accurate and policy based contrasting your opponent is a fair thing to do and a good thing to do in a campaign. That's what they're about. To get your message out and to show how it's different from the other side.

>>Katie Couric: Alright. Well, Minnesota Governor Tim Palenti, you've got a sign behind you. What does it say? Palenti, McCain and Palin. Are you on the ticket now?

>>Governor Tim Palenti: Behind me a minute ago was triumph the insult comic dog, Katie, but that's on another network so I won't promote that but I'll be talking to triumph here in a minute.

>>Katie Couric: [Laughter] Oh, you'll enjoy that. I like him.

>>Governor Tim Palenti: I will

>>Katie Couric: And I know you can take care of him just fine. Thanks Governor Palenti. Alright, so we've got some more email questions I want to just throw out there. While we're on the subject of Governor Palin, Thomas from Florida writes and I'll let you take this, Jeff. Why do you think Barack Obama did not attack Governor Palin's competency?

>>Jeff: Cause he doesn't have to. First of all he's the candidate for president and it always takes him down a peg. Second his entire persona, whether it's to John McCain or Sarah Palin, is respect. Remember the first debate he kept saying, I agree with John McCain and there was a big to do, he was too defenseless but turned out people liked that. But the point is her ratings have plummeted since her very effective acceptance speech. You've got a whole group of conservative writers and bloggers who are saying really, really negative things about her on sheer competency grounds. So why go there? He's trying to tell the people follow me to a better place and for him to get involved in tearing down the vice presidential candidate it would be counterproductive and her own side, some of them, are doing a fairly effective job of that.

>>Katie Couric: How have the vice presidential choices affected your decision or your thinking? Has anybody been affected positively or negatively by the vice presidential choices? Michael?

>>Michael: I definitely have, I mean, the choice of vice president is the opportunity for me to assess what kind of cabinet they might have in place. After all we're going to elect a president then they're going to select a treasury secretary etc. secretary of defense, we obviously have two wars and a global economic meltdown underway so Palin is a negative factor for John McCain in my assessment because I'm looking at her as an example of what type of individual he would surround himself with and I'm unsure of her qualifications.

>>Katie Couric: Anyone else feel strongly about? Go ahead.

>>I was disappointed, very disappointed in Barack Obama's decision. For how long have we been hearing we need change, we need change and what does he do but pick as a running mate somebody that's been in Washington, D.C. for 35 years and in my opinion Biden is part of the problem that we need change from. So I was very disappointed.

>>Katie Couric: Anyone else?

>>I agree.

>>I agree with that comment and I realize that Governor Palin doesn't have quote unquote the Washington experience the insider experience but she is a fresh face. She's demonstrated in some respects that she's capable of making decisions in leadership. I mean, I think we still have a lot to learn about her. It's hard in this particular arena to really know what someone's capable of doing but it's, that's probably was one of the big things with Obama when he brought Biden in. I don't have anything against the Senator I'm just saying as an insider and that's what Obama was fighting all the time. So

>>Katie Couric: Tyler you were going to say something?

>>Tyler: Yea, one of the big things that's keeping me from being committed to John McCain is that he picked Sarah Palin because I don't feel comfortable her being president if something would happen to John McCain. I think we'd all be in trouble. [Laughter] So that's one of the big things that goes against John McCain for me.

>>One of the problems, of course, is that when we look back at the presidents we've had if you look at Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt or Clinton or a lot of the people who've come into the presidency they weren't Washington insiders. Reagan wasn't a Washington insider. Carter certainly wasn't a Washington insider. These people had limited experience and we went through the same problems with them and we survived it. So, you know, having a limited amount of experience is not necessarily bad. It might be good.

>>Katie Couric: Ok. Alright, let me go to Dr. Soudo [Assumed spelling] who writes, could you please comment on the candidate's body language tonight? And I'd like to give our resident body language expert, Jeff Greenfield a chance to answer [Laughter] that question. Jeff?

>>Jeff: Thank you, Katie. [Laughter] I think that was, I'm here guessing, ok, I think that was one of the reason why maybe our respondents responded the way they did. I mentioned earlier that atmospherics are a lot of what goes on here because we're trying to get a sense of these people and we know that a lot of their words are shaped by other people so we kind of look at them the way you look at somebody you don't know too well at a party and when McCain is in that kind of, what did Bartlett call it, exasperated mode, whether it's a kind of a smile for some people might almost look like more of a smirk, that there's a sense of impatience. And Obama is kinda like, I always compare him to kinda like Bugs Bunny, you know, languid, cool, he just doesn't get ruffled. Except he did a little in the first I'd say 15 minutes of this debate, unusually. And I think that's what some people are responding to that there's something off putting about somebody who looks like he's just not happy. He's disgruntled. He's just not in that frame. And I think that's what's been going on with McCain at some of these debates and I think I saw, in the second half of this debate, some of that tonight.

>>Katie Couric: And we have time for two more internet questions and then we have to call it a night. But Jeff did I mention that we're being sponsored tonight by Intel?

>>Jeff: Yes. [ Music ]

>>Katie Couric: Thank you. [Laughter]

>>Jeff: I feel so cheap

>>Katie Couric: I know. It's fine, yea. Remember like when people used to have to do commercials like for Alpo

>>Jeff: Camel news caravan.

>>Katie Couric: Anyway, listen I want you to straighten this out because I think this continues to be an issue in the campaign and I'm sorry to make you do this, Jeff. But last time I made Cheryl explain what earmarks are so this is your turn. Maureen from Michigan writes did Senator Obama start his campaign in Bill Ayers living room? And I think maybe you could attempt to explain the significance or lack of significance in this relationship, in your view.

>>Jeff: When Barack Obama ran for the state senate one of his first

>>Katie Couric: In 1995

>>Jeff: In 1995, he'd been a local, as we know, community organizer. He had an event, I don't think it was a fund raiser, it was a coffee, a meet and greet, in Bill Ayers house. So whether that was the launch of his career or not there was a political event that happened in Bill Ayers house and there was service on a couple of boards that were about education. Now the critics of Obama say Bill Ayers is no educational informer. He was and is a radical from the left who wants the schools to become quote progressive instruments. In other words, it's a political motive. But it's also clear that in no sense has Bill Ayers been like a political advisor to Obama and that attempt to link him that closely is probably wrong. But there's no question -- and then it's also true that the first thing that Obama said about Ayers is he's some guy in the neighborhood. It was a little more than that but it wasn't nearly -- the present tense that Governor Palin uses that he's paling around with terrorists is also highly misleading. It suggests that it's going on and it isn't. So much in politics, you know, [Laughter] depending on what side you're on you're gonna hear one version or another.

>>Katie Couric: Is it, in your view and I know I'm putting you on the spot, a legitimate issue to raise regarding Barak Obama's background and judgment?

>>Jeff: Sure in the same sense that it's legitimate to ask why John McCain as a Senator put so much effort into helping Mr. Keating when he was, you know, playing around with savings and loan. I mean, when you run for president I think just about everything is fair game provided it's described fairly. John McCain said that that was the worst moment in his public life and he became a reform because of it. He says he had bad judgment. Barack Obama has had some explaining to do about his association with Jeremiah Wright, which as you point out Senator McCain has not brought up and that relationship goes back 20 years. I absolutely think it's fair provided you're being fair.

>>Katie Couric: Or accurate or not sort of exaggerating it for political gain or minimizing it for political gain but the problem is it's hard to know who to believe because each side has its own version of the truth.

>>Jeff: And that's right. It's kind of like the blind man with the elephant. Is it a snake, you know, is it a rhino, is it a lion, whatever it is, depending on which part you feel. It's one of the things and I've been covering campaigns for a very long time, I just assumed it is in the DNA of political people, partisans, to put the worst face on their opponent and the best face on their own person. That's not surprising. <

>>Jeff: No. In good economic times people feel free to choose on a whole other variety of things. When things are really bad they tend to focus like a laser beam on that which is why I think Obama is ahead. But the other thing is the most zealous partisans of each candidate want the candidate, metaphorically, to ring the other guy's neck. And they're urging them, take the gloves off. Really hit them. And it's probably why some of Obama's supporters were disappointed in the first debate when he kept saying, I agree with John McCain because Obama understood that that was probably a much wiser way to communicate than to say, this is the worst human being that ever walked the face of the earth.

>>Katie Couric: But do you think moderate voters do want a more civil conversation?

>>Jeff: Yea, I do.

>>Katie Couric: Alright. So we're gonna end tonight with a final question for you all. Joseph Cortez [Assumed spelling] writes and I think Rosemary you started to address this but maybe one of you guys can be the appointed spokesperson for the group. Why has it taken this long for you to decide?

>>I wanna wait and hear all the facts from both candidates all the way up until the very end. You know, like lookin at a court case. You wanna hear all of it before you make your decision and I'm waiting until the very last day before I make my decision.

>>Katie Couric: So you really won't decide, you think, until November 3 or the morning of the 4 possibly?

>>Possibly. I wanna wait until I see everything.

>>Is there a reason to rush to judgment?

>>Katie Couric: You sound like Johnnie Cochran. [ Laughter ]

>>And maybe that's where it comes from but there's no reason to rush into it. You've got plenty of time. There's still three weeks. Is there a reason why we can't listen some more and figure out what's happening? Maybe things will change. Maybe something will come up that says, man, this is a real skunk. We shouldn't elect him.

>>It's not our place to represent the defense or the prosecution in this case. I enjoy being the judge [Laughter] and I'm going to listen to all the evidence that's presented. Neither of these men are going to be elected any faster by me picking a team right now.

>>Katie Couric: Alright, well ladies and gentleman of the jury, your honor, [Laughter] thank you all so much for talking with us and for coming to New York City from all across the country, not once but twice, although I know Dennis you're a first timer here, so stay in touch. We'd be very interested in hearing what you all decide in the next three weeks or so, cause that's all the time you have. Unless, Andrea, you're not going to vote.

>>Andrea: No, I will vote. But like he says, I have until, you know, November 4 and that is my right and you hear new stuff everyday just since the beginning of last week a lot came in so

>>Katie Couric: Well, I'm glad you're not succumbing to peer pressure either from people like Joseph Cortez. Alright, thank you all so much. Jeff, thank you, Cheryl, thank you. I think everyone else has left, right Rick? They kind of leave in the middle of the webcast. [Laughter] Quite frankly I think it's a bit rude but we'll take that up tomorrow. Anyway, that does it for us. Thanks to all of you who wrote in to say you liked this webcast. We appreciate the ego waffles. That was Tony Mesillas line. He's our producer. I was like, Eggo waffles, what? Ego waffles and we're glad we got a chance to answer some of the thousands of questions we received online. You can keep checking at CBSnews.com for announcements about upcoming webcasts and I wanna thank again tonight our sponsor [Music] alright thanks everybody. See ya. ^M00:47:03 [ Music ]