Buzz Out Loud 769: The strongest versus the hardest Video

Buzz Out Loud 769: The strongest versus the hardest Video Transcript

>> Tom Merritt: It's Friday, July 18, 2008.

>> Molly Wood: I'm Molly Wood.

>> Tom Merritt: I'm Tom Merritt.

>> Brian Tong: Brian Tong.

>> Molly Wood: Brian Tong is in the house. Welcome to Buzz Out Loud: CNET's podcast...

>> Tom Merritt: It's too cool [inaudible].

>> Brian Tong: Thank you.

>> Molly Wood: ...of indeterminate length. [ Inaudible ]

>> Brian Tong: AKA Brian Thong according to the chats. Dude what's up with that?

>> Molly Wood: It's Episode 769, our Friday video show. Brian Tong has kindly agreed -- kindly agreed with roughly 1 and 1 half minutes notice to come on the show and give us a little E3 rundown and of course his special take on the [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: He's a gamer.

>> Brian Tong: I'm down with the game. [Inaudible]

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, seriously.

>> Molly Wood: I know. So you just got back from L.A.? How was it? So what's the show like now because I mean there was like spectacle and then like crappy hotel room?

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Now, somewhere in the middle?

>> Brian Tong: So I mean, the thing is about it is like it's at the convention center, but there's not signage. There's nothing. Like you would not be even able that like E3 was going on. You have to walk inside and you see these little like cardboard boards that are maybe like I don't know, maybe like 2 feet by like 1 and a half foot saying "E3 - Media and Business Summit." It looked very corporate. It was you know -- there was no energy around it other than the fact that if you went into these rooms to preview the games, I'm sure these companies themed their rooms with colors and lights. But it was pretty dead.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: But most people you talked to were pretty disappointed.

>> Tom Merritt: So there is a floor though? There is a gaming floor or something?

>> Brian Tong: There is a gaming floor but it was -- I mean it was small too. I think it maybe ran - geez [assumed spelling] I don't know - maybe about like 10 different companies lengthwise and then maybe 3 companies deep. So I would say maybe 30 to 40 booths total in a really small space.

>> Molly Wood: That's so weird because it's almost like they threw a nuclear bomb in it...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, and...

>> Molly Wood: ...and now they're sort of slowly rebuilding. Like do you think in 2 or 3 years it's going to be what it was? Like the last time I was at E3 there were - you know - an army with helicopter and dudes down and there was like a rocket jet guy and like -- you know what I mean?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, the Fire Dancers Union is really upset with the changes.

>> Molly Wood: Cause what do they do now?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, seriously.

>> Molly Wood: I mean they make all their money in that one time a year.

>> Tom Merritt: Their stuck with CES and the Shoe Convention, that's it.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, but it's a bummer. There weren't even you know -- there were like a few faux booth babes - you know wanna be booth babes - that were like not as high level of quality of booth babes as I would have expected.

>> Molly Wood: Oh.

>> Brian Tong: So even those -- that was weak too.

>> Molly Wood: At one point they had banned them.

>> Tom Merritt: Besides the booth babe review...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah. [Laughter]

>> Tom Merritt: What was kind of the overall like news?

>> Brian Tong: Oh yeah, we should get to that I guess.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, I guess so.

>> Brian Tong: Since I was there and paid to do that right? So I mean basically overall it was a lot of software announcements. You didn't see much hardware. Nintendo - if people checked out or didn't know - Nintendo released a few hardware goodies like a Wii Motion Plus which is a sensor that makes the Wii Mote now ultra oober [assumed spelling] sensitive.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah so what -- I mean is that all it does because I kept reading like trying to figure out - like I don't know, I think I'm relatively smart - but I was like "I don't understand what this Motion Plus thing is like..."

>> Brian Tong: You are relatively smart Molly Wood. And don't let anybody tell you different.

>> Molly Wood: But not all the way smart: just relatively.

>> Brian Tong: Don't let anyone tell you different.

>> Molly Wood: Relative to dumb people, I'm pretty smart.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, it's -- the thing is again Nintendo will typically break out a piece of hardware, have their own companion software and then the developers kind of follow those cues and figure out how to use it. [Inaudible] I got to play with it. It was a true one-to-one relationship. Like when I just slightly tilted my wrist, this like Frisbee tilted exactly the same way. When I did this water ski game it did react better but the games are so simple.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: You know, it's like a -- it's a Wii Sports Resort game. Until a developer really takes advantage of that, I mean maybe you could do more like -- a more accurate surgery game like Life and Death Trauma Center. That's cool but it's going to be awhile before we see software that supports all that stuff.

>> Molly Wood: I wouldn't mind if the sensitivity was improved in Tanks. I'm not going to lie, because half the time I'm like "I shot right at it."

>> Brian Tong: Exactly, exactly.

>> Molly Wood: It's not even moving.

>> Brian Tong: So, I mean it's kind of funny. Don't you think they should have just made it ultra sensitive in the first place?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, I guess that's was -- that's what I was like really [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, if they could have...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: ...you'd think they would have unless it was just discovered.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Okay, one big controversy too was that Bungie had been doing the lead up and saying "We're going to announce this cool thing." And then they said like "Our publisher Microsoft wouldn't let us talk about Halo at all." Do you -- I mean you were at the Microsoft press conference. Could it have gone 10 minutes extra to talk about Halo Wars?

>> Brian Tong: Oh it definitely could have. I mean you know people got juiced up when they saw the Gears of War II demo.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: And we know Halo is the money maker franchise for the Xbox. And just the fact they showcased other action games - Fallout III - people have been waiting for. But the fact that they didn't even give us a little bit of Bungie taste? I mean come on.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: It was...

>> Molly Wood: Did you actually notice it lacking, like despite even all the build up stuff where you're just like "Really? [Inaudible]."

>> Brian Tong: You know I didn't honestly I didn't know exactly what to expect from Microsoft. I didn't go in saying like, "Oh they're definitely going to show Halo stuff."

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: But you know once they just started talking about like system updates which were kind of fun to see but seriously at the end of the day, who really cares? We want to know about games.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: Right? It's all about the games. And when it wasn't and it was more dominated by system updates, I was like, "Okay, that's cool too."

>> Tom Merritt: System updates man: I mean that makes for a conference right there.

>> Molly Wood: That's hot stuff. I guess it was...

>> Brian Tong: People were buzzing, let me tell you.

>> Molly Wood: They were trying to keep it. So were the press conferences more subdued too? Like Microsoft you know they have smoke machines and do the tattoos and was it much more like a press conference or did they still flash it up?

>> Brian Tong: Microsoft's was subdued. The hottest one was definitely Sony's cause they had 65 displays ranging in all different types and size: a lot of lighting, a lot of effects. Nintendo's was like as basic as you could get. It was like a metal stage with a light and I think there was smoke like for 5 seconds.

>> Molly Wood: For the Wii music.

>> Brian Tong: Wii music.

>> Tom Merritt: I'm afraid that's all we could afford.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: But Sony did a nice job. Like visually...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: ...it was like you felt the games, the impact, the colors changed with each system which each game demos. So it was fun. But overall again E3 was all about software. There was no goodies that everyone was like, "Oh my God!" No one came out of there buzzing about anything in particular.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: There were cool things but if that's your convention that showcases your industry for the year, you got to bring something to the table.

>> Molly Wood: Helicopters. That's all I'm trying to say.

>> Tom Merritt: You've got to figure, these consoles have all been out for over a year now.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, there's not much they can do.

>> Tom Merritt: It's going to take a new console launch before we really get -- capture that excitement again.

>> Brian Tong: Yep, yep.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: So, shall we move onto the top selling console report that came out?

>> Molly Wood: I think so appropriately enough and keeping with the news.

>> Tom Merritt: MPV released a report that actually I think is if I'm reading this right, the Nintendo DS is the top selling console with 783 thousand purchased in June?

>> Molly Wood: What? I thought the Wii was?

>> Brian Tong: I thought it was the Wii dude?

>> Tom Merritt: Is the Wii...

>> Molly Wood: Well the DS isn't really a console.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, the DS is more of a handheld.

>> Tom Merritt: DS and PSP are always counted in these numbers so it does kind of muddy the water. You're right.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, but it did outsell them all. Like the Wii outsold the 360 as well as the PS3 with 666,700 units, but then yeah you're right the DS was 783.

>> Tom Merritt: And then the Xbox 360 dropped to 5 out of the 3 consoles.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: If you [inaudible], cause the PSP is outselling the Xbox 360.

>> Molly Wood: Wow. Crazy.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah...

>> Molly Wood: I can't believe the PSP's still going like that especially cause I think the iPhone is totally the new PSP.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, the new gaming device thing.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: I think also the DS though has kept up strong numbers like I've been you know -- I pay attention to that stuff cause I'm a DS freak. I'm a PSP freak as well, but is it the price point? I mean 129 for a game.

>> Molly Wood: How many things is it possible to be a freak about at once do you think before you're just like tapped?

>> Tom Merritt: You're freaked out.

>> Brian Tong: I'm not tapped out yet. I'm not tapped.

>> Molly Wood: Also apparently, Wii Play still a top seller on the Wii console moving 346,100 copies. Like I'm talking about tank.

>> Brian Tong: Have you played the Wii Play though? Like do you get bored of it, like...?

>> Molly Wood: No.

>> Brian Tong: No?

>> Molly Wood: I can never get bored of Tank. Well okay, I have to...

>> Brian Tong: So this is cool.

>> Molly Wood: Mostly I play Mario Cart but I love Tanks and the little cow racing game.

>> Brian Tong: [Inaudible] Okay that one's fun. That one's...

>> Molly Wood: I mean granted we were vacationing with a 3 and a half year old on my recent vacation in [inaudible] we played Tanks a lot. Cause he would go to bed and then we'd be like, "Wanna play some more Tanks? Dude do it." [Beeping sounds]

>> Brian Tong: Okay, that game is fun. I'll give you that.

>> Tom Merritt: So Wii is now the total number 1 as well, right? Like considering...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, the total number 1.

>> Tom Merritt: ...like the past - what is it - one year of sales?

>> Molly Wood: Yes.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Luckily for Sony they did see a huge surge in console sales thanks largely to [inaudible]. Consumers snapped up 405,500 units and then now there's the price cut. So I guess we're going to see now if PS3 is gonna get in the game.

>> Brian Tong: I've been waiting on the fence to get a PS3 just because the price wasn't like just good enough for me.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: But when September kicks around, I'm definitely pulling the [inaudible] on that.

>> Molly Wood: Really? [Inaudible]

>> Brian Tong: Then I will have the trio of console power.

>> Molly Wood: So then you'll have all 3 consoles: the DS, the iPhone...

>> Brian Tong: And the PSP.

>> Molly Wood: ...and the PSP.

>> Brian Tong: Oh yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Freaked out.

>> Brian Tong: Come over to my place. Let's hang out.

>> Molly Wood: I think September is when you're going to freak out.

>> Brian Tong: [Laughter] Too much tech.

>> Molly Wood: AT&T apparently has announced free WiFi for iPhone users again. They announced it again. And then this time they also did not mean it like the last time that they announced it. It is also not true still.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, you'll probably see a ton of blog postings today on Friday about how they've announced it again, because they did put it up on their website. So the bloggers are lying. It's not a rumor. AT&T has posted up this thing saying that the iPhone users are going to get free WiFi. And Marguerite Reardon was the first person to talk to AT&T and have AT&T them actually no that was another mistake.

>> Molly Wood: Unbelievable.

>> Tom Merritt: It wasn't supposed to be published.

>> Molly Wood: And at the time she talked to them, it was still on the website. Like it still said on the website that free WiFi was available for iPhone users. And then they were like, "Oh no, that's..." I'm sorry but at this point are they starting to stray into false advertising territory? Like are they starting to creep into that line where when you advertise a price even in it was a typo you have to honor it? Because this is getting a little -- it's the second time in less than 6 months.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, I don't know how that works.

>> Molly Wood: Like do they just have it...?

>> Tom Merritt: I don't know what those laws are.

>> Molly Wood: You know what, if you have the mock up of the webpage that has it on there and you're not ready to -- maybe just delete the mock up so you aren't -- and you're like...

>> Tom Merritt: Don't put it in the content management system?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, don't put it in like the WordPress log that's running your website or whatever.

>> Tom Merritt: Just keep it on to this local drive.

>> Molly Wood: What are they doing?

>> Tom Merritt: And then the other thing is the AT&T rep that Marguerite Reardon at News.com talked to said -- wouldn't even confirm that this will ever happen. At least in the past they said, "No, we still plan to do this. It's just not yet." He was like, "No comment." When she's like "Is this really going to happen eventually?"

>> Brian Tong: So here's a funny story. Like you know how you guys are talking about how you know, they've delayed again? I go to Starbucks...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: ...and like their WiFi - their AT&T WiFi - with their whole Starbucks membership card actually works. So this whole time I've thought it's actually been officially up.

>> Tom Merritt: So you haven't been paying? You've just been using it.

>> Brian Tong: Oh yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Oh cause it works at Starbucks. It works on purpose. They made that deal with the T-Mobile switchover I think.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: Oh.

>> Molly Wood: So at Starbucks you can get free AT&T wireless.

>> Tom Merritt: But that's what this announcement is all about. The free WiFi would be at Starbucks...

>> Molly Wood: No this says "including Starbucks."

>> Tom Merritt: ...as well as a bunch of other places, so...

>> Molly Wood: Right.

>> Tom Merritt: ...if it's already at Starbucks...

>> Brian Tong: It definitely works at Starbucks. I can tell you that. So that's why in my mind I was like, "Whatever, it works."

>> Molly Wood: Don't they already have free WiFi? What is going on with AT&T? Seriously, what monkeys are running this show because that is just embarrassing?

>> Brian Tong: [Monkey sounds]

>> Tom Merritt: Hey now, don't insult monkeys.

>> Molly Wood: It's not like they're likely to get sued over the free WiFi, but I'm just saying like at some point as a consumer you just like, "Bite me." That's why we take this tone. This is the kind of thing that leads to the tone.

>> Tom Merritt: Alright, Yahoo is taking it to the street Doobie Brothers style with the big old banner up on their Yahoo.com page that says, "This could be the most important election before November" amongst other things. It changes I guess from time to time.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, like...

>> Tom Merritt: We have a couple of exclamation points is another one that I saw.

>> Molly Wood: But so what they're basically doing is they're using the Yahoo.com homepage to get you -- to outline their argument against Carl Icahn and all the Wall Street investors who think that Yahoo's going down the tubes. But Icahn wants to replace Yahoo's board, fire Jerry Yang and then get back into negotiations with Microsoft. So Yahoo's like -- they put this thing on the website that's like proxy facts and you know dissin [assumed spelling] Carl Icahn like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, if you click through on that banner, it takes you to a page that says, "It's hard to understand these technology companies, quote Carl Icahn."

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, attributed to Carl Icahn. Like it's so -- but it's just -- and it points to his dismal track record as an investor. But I'm just saying like the people who go to the Yahoo homepage are not always -- like the ones who just accidentally have Yahoo.com set as their homepage or whatever. Like if people go to My Yahoo, but that's different. They've personalized it like -- really, like you want to bring them into the whole proxy fight thing? Like it's sort of an odd -- I guess they feel like they don't have anything else.

>> Tom Merritt: Show of hands. Who found out about this from a blog versus going to www.Yahoo.com?

>> Brian Tong: Who found out about it just like 5 minutes ago because they were asked to be on the show?

>> Tom Merritt: [Laughing]

>> Brian Tong: If I saw that announcement on the front of Yahoo's website, I wouldn't click on it. I don't care.

>> Molly Wood: Your Yahoo. Your vote.

>> Brian Tong: And I care about tech. I don't care about that.

>> Tom Merritt: You would think it was just some ad for some new Yahoo thing that you didn't care about.

>> Brian Tong: I would think they're talking about -- they're trying to play up on the fact that maybe it's about Barack Obama and John McCain. [Inaudible]

>> Molly Wood: It's so -- I know totally.

>> Brian Tong: I'm not even clicking on that.

>> Molly Wood: It's so weird and sneaky and it's not even sneaky, it's just strange. Like I mean I think it's going to be an -- I wish I could get their click through numbers because I'd be very interested to know "Are Yahoo people that much loyalists that they're just like you go Jerry Yang?"

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Although there is an update to the tech crunch story that says that one of Yahoo's biggest shareholders - Legg Mason's Bill Miller - just announced that he will vote his stake in Yahoo to support Yang and the current board. And so there's one more guy left I guess, who if he votes the same way than Icahn is out.

>> Brian Tong: [Inaudible] down to one man.

>> Tom Merritt: I've always said Icahn, but...

>> Molly Wood: The Icahn slate is...

>> Tom Merritt: I can say whatever I want.

>> Brian Tong: Will you guys do that again for me?

>> Molly Wood: No.

>> Tom Merritt: I can go onto the next story to stop this terrible pun from happening again.

>> Molly Wood: Please, please do it.

>> Tom Merritt: The EU is confirming additional anti trust charges against Intel. Happy birthday Intel, by the way. They turn 40.

>> Molly Wood: Hey, that's right.

>> Brian Tong: How old are you?

>> Tom Merritt: I'm 2 years younger than Intel. [Laughter]

>> Molly Wood: Anyway, now you're both of pervert age.

>> Tom Merritt: Yes, that's right. You're like half my age? Is that right?

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, about.

>> Molly Wood: Something.

>> Brian Tong: I'm working on it.

>> Molly Wood: I think Tong was born in the 90s. Oh kill me.

>> Brian Tong: I just aged [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: [Inaudible] first album came out.

>> Brian Tong: I've aged like crazy.

>> Tom Merritt: Anyway, enough of the jibing. The EU has filed...

>> Molly Wood: You could not have sounded any older just then.

>> Tom Merritt: Exactly.

>> Molly Wood: Okay, anyway.

>> Tom Merritt: The EU has filed court papers and that's what we're here to talk about. They brought 3 additional charges against Intel for abusing its dominate position in the chip market in Europe, including offering inducements to European retailers to not buy processors from AMD. They are charged with paying a leading OEM manufacturer - it doesn't say which one, OEM manufacturer is redundant of course - to delay the launch of a product with an AMD CPU. So they're accused of paying an OEM to hold off...

>> Molly Wood: Right.

>> Tom Merritt: ...on launching an AMD product so that they could sell more Intel stuff.

>> Brian Tong: Nice.

>> Molly Wood: Yikes. Yeah this is the kind of accusation that is always kind of being lobbed against.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, lobbed.

>> Brian Tong: Lobbed.

>> Molly Wood: Levered, lobbed against Intel in forums and stuff. I mean never in like EU papers. It's never been gone to the formal accusation stage so this is gonna -- if this is true, it's pretty you know... Tom Merritt: Well you like to rail against the EU's like picking on Microsoft all the time.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: And granted, what they're picking on there is like, "You're just too successful." Which they could have an argument about that, but this is pretty like direct, like you're paying people to not sell your competitor's product.

>> Molly Wood: Right.

>> Tom Merritt: That's not okay.

>> Molly Wood: That's pretty bad like there's anti-competitor action.

>> Tom Merritt: Having a successful product, competitive pricing, these things...

>> Molly Wood: And then there's bribing.

>> Tom Merritt: ...are different. Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah. That's hard core. So anyway, so a happy birthday Intel...

>> Tom Merritt: Sort of.

>> Brian Tong: That's straight up gangster, that's [inaudible].

>> Molly Wood: That's a file in a case.

>> Tom Merritt: Just don't think about this.

>> Molly Wood: That's a poison apple. Shocking news from The New York Times today: in a recently released report, Ad Mob which serves ads for more that 5 thousand mobile websites, found that less expensive phones are driving mobile web usage as much as Smart Phones like the Blackberry or the iPhone. And to this I said, "Yeah, no duh."

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, um...

>> Molly Wood: Because...

>> Tom Merritt: Granted it's been a little over a year since I had my Motorola RAZR as my regular phone, but I did pull up web pages on it...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: ...and it's so not a Smart Phone.

>> Molly Wood: And it's not even the type -- even if it's just plain browsing right, it's still you're getting the scores; you're getting the weather...

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: ...you know. And this -- how could this be shocking considering the sheer numbers of phones involved?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Like there's something like 85 percent penetration in the cell phone market in the U.S. There's 11 percent Smart Phone penetration.

>> Tom Merritt: I think TMB analysts would like to announce a study. We've found that 99 percent of phone users make calls on their phones. [ Laughter ]

>> Molly Wood: That's true. That's true.

>> Brian Tong: That's amazing.

>> Molly Wood: Stop the presses. [Inaudible]

>> Tom Merritt: There are one percent who don't.

>> Molly Wood: That's mean. I don't, I don't...

>> Tom Merritt: You don't ever use your phone to make calls.

>> Molly Wood: I hardly ever use my phone to make calls. I would say never would be strong. But yeah, they said worldwide Nokia and Motorola phones are commonly used with the RAZR and the CRZR, the most popular devices for viewing mobile ads.

>> Tom Merritt: There you go.

>> Brian Tong: At least they taught themselves something more than anyone else.

>> Tom Merritt: You got MP3s on your computers right everybody?

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: No legal MP3s. [Inaudible]

>> Brian Tong: Oh yeah, yeah for sure.

>> Tom Merritt: That you buy from a DRM-free MP3 store. Yeah?

>> Molly Wood: Yes.

>> Brian Tong: Yes.

>> Tom Merritt: Be careful. There's a worm gonna infect them.

>> Molly Wood: No, only if you download music from a peer-to-peer network.

>> Brian Tong: Who does that?

>> Molly Wood: No one that I know.

>> Tom Merritt: That's what I do right?

>> Molly Wood: So if you did though, if anybody did do that, there is a new...

>> Tom Merritt: ...I don't do that actually. I'm trying to pretend like I'm cooler than I am.

>> Molly Wood: No, I know I totally agree with that.

>> Tom Merritt: Who...

>> Brian Tong: Holly.

>> Tom Merritt: It's not even cool to download from MP3s from a P2P network anymore.

>> Molly Wood: No, I don't think so. It depends on who you ask.

>> Tom Merritt: There are much better ways to steal, but buy them.

>> Molly Wood: Anyway...

>> Tom Merritt: I buy them all the time. I buy all my music.

>> Brian Tong: I get rapped on by my friends for doing it, but hey.

>> Tom Merritt: P2P is dangerous though and here's another reason why.

>> Molly Wood: I buy CDs.

>> Tom Merritt: I used to do that. I used to do that but now with Amazon and...

>> Molly Wood: I asked for them for Christmas.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: Who else was on set for the show today, because I have someone who's a caveman still?

>> Molly Wood: Okay, the new cavewoman.

>> Brian Tong: Cave person, person. Sorry.

>> Molly Wood: The [inaudible] is a...

>> Tom Merritt: [Inaudible] than cavemen.

>> Molly Wood: ...new kind of -- what? This is getting more and more hurtful.

>> Tom Merritt: This show's so easy, even cavemen can host it.

>> Molly Wood: A new kind of -- dude next week let's totally dress up as cavemen.

>> Brian Tong: I'm down.

>> Molly Wood: A new kind of malicious software could pose a danger to Window's users who download music files on peer-to-peer networks. Kaspersky has apparently found that this new malware inserts links to dangerous web pages within media files and it even sort of transcodes them I think into WAV files, but it maintains the MP3 extension. And then if you play the music file that's infected, it will launch IE of course and load a malicious web page which asks you to download a codec which is a well-known trick to get someone to download malware. And then the actual download is not a codec but a Trojan horse. Now not that many people would be fooled by this hopefully, but some would be and that's no [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: There's a lot of bad stuff on P2P networks. That's always been my argument of why the RIA and all the music labels should just stop their whining and create a P2P network that has got high quality music that is guaranteed to come from a fast central server and doesn't have malware. It doesn't have worms.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: I guess the one negative of that is to hope that they wouldn't get infected themselves and somehow transmit it to everyone, but you know.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah. No, I don't know. I agree like I don't -- I just don't think it's worth it anymore. It's sort of like why would -- it's 99 cents.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: It's like really aside from [inaudible]...

>> Brian Tong: Or less.

>> Molly Wood: There was a time in college when I was a truly starving college student or whatever and 99 cents would have been too much. But really, for a lot of people it's okay.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, it's 27 cents on E-Music. Granted you gotta pay up front cause you pay for the month but...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: I mean...

>> Brian Tong: Digging and getting crappy files sucks. You know.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah. Get stuff that's not encoded well or...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah and you're like great.

>> Tom Merritt: You get the live version when you wanted the studio version.

>> Brian Tong: It's the radio release where it's like [inaudible].

>> Molly Wood: Oh yeah, totally.

>> Brian Tong: They have their voices over it and you're like, "This sucks."

>> Molly Wood: And it's all like [inaudible] or whatever.

>> Brian Tong: That sucks.

>> Molly Wood: No, no just buy it.

>> Tom Merritt: A Slashdot posting points to a release issued by Rocky Mountain Tracking about an 18 year old man - Shaun Malone - successfully contesting a speeding ticket because his parents apparently - and we think not with his knowledge - had put a GPS tracker in his car so they could find out where he was going and how fast he was driving. He got pulled over for speeding. Radar gun said he was speeding. They looked at the GPS device information and it said he wasn't speeding.

>> Brian Tong: Oh yes.

>> Tom Merritt: And the court said that's the more reliable information.

>> Brian Tong: Wow.

>> Tom Merritt: No ticket.

>> Molly Wood: It's pretty crazy. Yeah, they were like, "Alright, we buy it." Yeah, it was evidently a total like Jack Bauer type device like the kind that -- it doesn't -- it just the kind that like [inaudible].

>> Brian Tong: We showcased one of those at Crave actually.

>> Molly Wood: Oh really?

>> Brian Tong: It was like this little GPS tracker that comes in this case with this huge magnet and you can just put it on the bottom of someone's you know -- on the car.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: And it would just stay there.

>> Molly Wood: I think this is a similar kind of thing.

>> Tom Merritt: I think I might want to put these on my car now.

>> Molly Wood: I know, that's pretty awesome.

>> Tom Merritt: That was if you get pulled over for speeding you can be like, "Oh no, I've got my GPS man. Are you sure you want to do that? My GPS, your Radar gun?"

>> Molly Wood: It actually sounds...

>> Tom Merritt: Draw.

>> Molly Wood: I like that like duel at dawn.

>> Brian Tong: Okay, I'll stop. Sorry.

>> Molly Wood: Like that. No that's pretty awesome. He in fact his GPS data said that he was driving exactly 45 miles per hour in the 45 mile per hour zone, which seems unlikely for a 17 year old, but there you go: technology.

>> Tom Merritt: Technology proves that Shaun Malone was obeying the law.

>> Brian Tong: You got served.

>> Molly Wood: Which made him a big nerd among all his friends.

>> Tom Merritt: Matt sent us along this link to Technology Review talking about Graphene. I've read a little bit about this before but this is sort of a new story saying that Graphene has now been determined to be the strongest material ever tested.

>> Molly Wood: Whoa.

>> Brian Tong: Ever.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, they are...

>> Molly Wood: Ever?

>> Tom Merritt: They're hoping to use the 1-atom thick sheets of carbon conduct to conduct electrons better than silicon. They've been made into fast low power transistors and now for the first time researchers have measured the intrinsic strength of Graphene and they've confirmed it to be the strongest material ever tested.

>> Molly Wood: They said that they compared the test? The test is really fascinating. And in fact they invented in with a sharp probe made of diamond which is the hardest substance.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah

>> Molly Wood: I don't know if the Graphene then -- it sounds to me like the Graphene defeated the diamond.

>> Tom Merritt: What happens when the hardest substance meets the strongest substance?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, apparently the strongest one won.

>> Brian Tong: Wow.

>> Molly Wood: They said that they compared the test to stretching a piece of plastic wrap over the top of a coffee cup and then measuring the force that it takes to puncture it with a pencil. And the diamond in that case was [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: This is different than graphite which you'll find in the pencil.

>> Molly Wood: They said if he could get a large enough piece of the material to lay over the top of the coffee cup he said - the head researcher said - Graphene would be strong enough to support the weight of a car balanced atop the pencil.

>> Brian Tong: Wow.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

>> Brian Tong: Wolverine can no longer claim adamantium is the strongest metal in the world.

>> Molly Wood: I know, look out.

>> Brian Tong: That's too bad.

>> Molly Wood: Does fictional strongest metal win though?

>> Tom Merritt: We're going to start a project to create a Graphene based Wolverine.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, the new Wolverine. Very hard and very strong.

>> Tom Merritt: We talked before about the European Union's funded P2P-Next team attempting to make a legal P2P network that would allow broadcasters to send their television shows streaming over P2P: not for download. They've come out with another statement saying that they hope to kill off traditional TV. They think they can take it out. We will not need to broadcast television over the air anymore. And it got me thinking cause you know you've got that AOL Radio app now on the iPhone, which gives you access to a ton of streaming stations. And there's Pandora and Last FM and other apps as well. But AOL actually gives you terrestrial radio stations. And then if this sort of thing does take off, do we see just over the air broadcasting just end? I mean forget this digital TV transition.

>> Molly Wood: Right.

>> Tom Merritt: It just becomes over the air internet and that's how you get all of it.

>> Molly Wood: I mean I can't imagine how soon this could be accomplished, right? Considering the ban with roll-out. Like they're still -- I mean we're arguing about whether we have enough infrastructure to support even just the kind of pithily [assumed spelling] moves to online television that are currently like streaming via Hooloo or P2P downloads of legal TV files like...

>> Tom Merritt: You're going to need one of these wireless things like YMAX and LTE along with massive fiber roll out.

>> Molly Wood: Massive, yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: I mean not even massive fiber roll out, but massive fiber to the curb rollout. There's plenty of fiber out there.

>> Molly Wood: Right now the team apparently says they're trying to live by the motto, "Don't expect the world to change because if you do to the significant [inaudible] that's needed." And they say that right now they're trying to make their -- it's called the SwarmPlayer system. So they are trying to make it work well even on existing and grossly asymmetrical connections.

>> Tom Merritt: So if they could do that, and the bandwidth keeps improving maybe you could see that.

>> Molly Wood: I mean long-term like what you said...

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: ...is it going to replace over the air broadcasting? Don't you think certainly it is?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: I would say there's no question.

>> Tom Merritt: Talking 10-15 years maybe.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: As long as they jump on board, right?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: I mean it's up to the networks...

>> Tom Merritt: Lot's of them already are like on the internet.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: And so it's just -- yeah, that transition's gonna be bumpy but eventually it becomes one of those things where you're like, "Well, we can take down the black and white transmitter." And there was not a -- we didn't have black and white transmitters that switch to color, but -- but you know what I mean?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: It's like, "Well, nobody's listening to that one anymore." You know they'll be stories someday about the last AM transmitter in the city has been taken down.

>> Molly Wood: It sounds like ISPs are going to be the biggest barrier because they've got the -- there's the size. Obviously there is the bandwidth issue and then the economics and flat fees is what this story points out.

>> Tom Merritt: Right, oh yeah. That's [inaudible] hashed out.

>> Molly Wood: It's an interesting lead over at [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: A lot of studies coming out today. Ars Technica has another one here about 81.5 percent of all emails sent in June were spam according to the web security firm MessageLabs. And then they broke it out by state in the United States.

>> Molly Wood: Which is [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: The most spammed U.S. State is my home state of Illinois: probably Chicago.

>> Molly Wood: Why?

>> Tom Merritt: Probably Chicago. I want to see some broken out numbers for downstate. Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: What, California's not even in the top 10?

>> Tom Merritt: Oh no, there's -- we don't get spam.

>> Molly Wood: That's just embarrassing.

>> Tom Merritt: That's because we have John Dvorak. He doesn't get any spam so it brings down the average.

>> Molly Wood: Apparently though it doesn't -- this is what was so interesting: software used to block junk email is not a factor here...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: ...because MessageLabs data describes the amount of spam sent in the first place, not how much is filtered or blocked.

>> Tom Merritt: Right, so it's not about user behavior as much as we're kidding around here. It's just about how much spam is out there.

>> Molly Wood: Or is it about user behavior in the sense that the U.S. States who are the most spammed contain the people who are more likely to click.

>> Tom Merritt: Now I see where you're going with that.

>> Brian Tong: I didn't read this but is it based off of like percent -- like ratio and population because South Dakota? Is that...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, I don't know.

>> Brian Tong: South Dakota?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, I think it must be a percentage right? Like 90.9 percent of all emails sent in South Dakota is...

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: ...is spam?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: 92.1 percent in Chicago is spam -- I mean Illinois?

>> Molly Wood: I don't know but I think it's pretty -- apparently they were talking about how is -- you know, poor Bill Gates predicted that spam would be conquered by 2006 and instead it is the vast majority of emails sent. Just like we're sort of you know crazily predicting the end of over the air TV...

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Molly Wood: I mean is this the end of email? Like is email at some point just gonna become useless?

>> Tom Merritt: A wasteland.

>> Molly Wood: It is kind of.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: It's getting there with [inaudible] point and time you're account gets like that.

>> Tom Merritt: Well there's a...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah it's just a morass.

>> Tom Merritt: I mean you know we joke about age and everything but there is a certain age group that does not use email anymore.

>> Molly Wood: No.

>> Tom Merritt: They just don't see the need for it. They're on IM, they're on text messaging and email's full of spam anyway, so what would you use it for?

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: I think it's really becoming more predominately a workplace tool now and this is bad news for productivity if you've got all this spam circulating around.

>> Molly Wood: I would definitely classify over 90 percent of the - even the work related email that I get - not the work related, but the email that I get in my work account as spam. And that does include sometimes just PR pitches that are poorly targeted.

>> Tom Merritt: Yes. That's different. That's bacon.

>> Molly Wood: I guess bacon is a slightly more appropriate term, but it is all a productivity killer in the sense that over 90 percent of the email I get, I don't need to be getting.

>> Tom Merritt: You just have to sit there and go...

>> Molly Wood: And I just am -- yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: It's like micro payments. They say micro payments will save the web because even though they're small you get enough of them you make a lot of money. Spam is the opposite. They're small, and it doesn't take that long to delete one but if you get enough of them it's a big time waste.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, exactly.

>> Brian Tong: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: It's a problem. It's a problem.

>> Tom Merritt: Matt also sent us a link to this LWN.net posting from Linus Torvalds to the Linux Kernel Mailing List. Now don't let your eyes glaze over too much. It's basically...

>> Molly Wood: In other words, hang with us.

>> Tom Merritt: ...letting people know that Linus Torvalds will be off this weekend and you are free to submit your merges for the Linux Kernel and he'll get to them. Don't get worried. It goes on and on and on. And if you're into the Linux [inaudible] this is all very appropriate stuff.

>> Molly Wood: Kernel [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: The best part though comes at the very end in a PS. After he signed off he says, "PS - And to get wider distribution for this message, Digg users you're all a bunch of Wanking Walruses and you can quote me on that."

>> Brian Tong: What?

>> Molly Wood: Cha-ching [assumed spelling]. And that's why I love him. Linus.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, totally.

>> Molly Wood: Wanking Walruses. I'm gonna go to Digg now and see if there's a -- cause that is...

>> Tom Merritt: So now he's made sure...

>> Molly Wood: I can see the Digg headline now: Linus Torvalds calls Diggs users Wanking Walruses, 1262 Diggs.

>> Tom Merritt: Everyone, everyone will know about this, even people who have no idea what he's talking about is going to know about this.

>> Molly Wood: I know: genius.

>> Tom Merritt: The first response on the mailing list by the way says, "Calling Diggers Wanking Walruses - though not nice - will give them attention and that's what they really want."

>> Brian Tong: Sure that.

>> Tom Merritt: Maybe Linus is a Digg user too?

>> Molly Wood: They're not even talking about the merge.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Or the BKL pushdown.

>> Tom Merritt: Please, that's what this is really all about.

>> Molly Wood: Serious business people. Alright, let's do the voicemails.

>> Tom Merritt: Shall we?

>> Molly Wood: Let's nail some voice...

>> Tom Merritt: Let's nail some voicemails. Who we got up first?

>> Molly Wood: I don't know. I'm tired. AJ in Alameda has some thoughts on actually why Halo got ignored at E3.

>> AJ: Hello Buzz Crew. This is AJ in Alameda regarding Halo Wars being absent at E3. I'm just wondering if it was Square Enix being the concern that the Halo Wars was going to steal their thunder maybe and that's why Final Fantasy had to have his moment? And Halo Wars got the boot. That's about the only thing that makes sense to me. You know, they just [inaudible] an exclusive from the PS3. Let me know what you think. Love this show.

>> Brian Tong: What?

>> Tom Merritt: He loves the show.

>> Molly Wood: He loves the show.

>> Brian Tong: Is that how people end their voicemails to you guys?

>> Molly Wood: Some do apparently: funnier than others.

>> Tom Merritt: Oh...

>> Molly Wood: Some just say the robot voice and then some do that...

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Molly Wood: And then there's -- there's different ways to say...

>> Tom Merritt: Good point [inaudible] AJ though.

>> Molly Wood: You'll learn.

>> Tom Merritt: Good, good, good point. Was this just a...

>> Molly Wood: Wrestling away the exclusive.

>> Tom Merritt: ...you know, yeah. Don't want to pollute the waters?

>> Molly Wood: Well, I just think they're saying like we have other things, right? Like they're trying to say, "We're not just about Halo." But...

>> Brian Tong: But like I said earlier I mean even if they did announce or show something with Halo Wars, the way they ended the press conference was that you know -- I can't remember his name. And people that are Square Enix fans will like kill me, but -- I don't know if it was the VP or the head of Square Enix, he left the stage...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Brian Tong: ...and then he came back and said, "Oh there's one more thing." And then they showed the trailer. So he was talking about all these Square Enix franchises, but then he left and there was no mention of Final Fantasy 13.

>> Molly Wood: Oh really?

>> Brian Tong: And then he came back. So clearly they wanted to make it like the "Oh surprise!" Like this is what we have. But even if they had thrown Halo Wars like before it, I think both of them would have been able to get equal love.

>> Molly Wood: I think so. Throw out a bone. You've got a chance with the one that brung ya.

>> Brian Tong: That's what I'm saying.

>> Tom Merritt: Alpha in the chatroom sent us the Digg link. [ Laughter ] It says, "Linus Torvalds calls Digger and I quote Wanking Walruses."

>> Brian Tong: Dude!

>> Molly Wood: Did I call it or what?

>> Tom Merritt: You almost wrote that [inaudible].

>> Molly Wood: I almost wrote that [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: 2,528 Diggs at this point.

>> Molly Wood: Wow! That is many more.

>> Brian Tong: That was like double what you said.

>> Molly Wood: That's the best because they totally don't like click through the Digger site. I'm sure they're gonna be like [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, now we'll get the [inaudible]. Alright, let's go and do our next voice mail. Who we got?

>> Molly Wood: Lets. We have got Eric in Ontario who is talking about how miracle of miracles from Watch Hulu in Canada.

>> Eric: Hi this is from Eric from Ontario calling. I just wanted to let all of the rest of the Canadians out there from Watch Hulu to begin dancing in the streets. Been watching Hulu content and video from NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and more from [inaudible]. All you need is anchor free hot spot shields. Just go to anchorfree.com, click "Download Hot Spot Shield" in the top right. A few clicks later and presto, welcome to online video heaven. Love the show.

>> Molly Wood: Online video heaven.

>> Tom Merritt: Okay so anchor free...

>> Molly Wood: You pulled it up there.

>> Tom Merritt: ...is a WiFi Hotspot protector. Like if so you go out to a coffee shop and you're using the open WiFi - especially if it's free - this is a way to kind of encrypt -- I don't think they use encryption. I think they use VPN.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: But it's a way to protect your content. But what happens is because they're using VPN it sends it through a United States IP address until you show up as if you are surfing from the United States. Question is as brilliant and clever as this is, is it legal? Does it break any laws? I don't know.

>> Molly Wood: I don't know either. I mean I guess...

>> Tom Merritt: It's not circumventing copywrite protection.

>> Molly Wood: Right.

>> Tom Merritt: It's also got multiple countries involved.

>> Molly Wood: I'm sure the networks would argue that it is somehow a violation of the license and the [inaudible] in the Hulu terms of agreement or something like that. But it's pretty fuzzy and I would say for now...

>> Brian Tong: Awesome.

>> Molly Wood: ...until I hear that it's officially illegal in some way, it's the kind of illegal that's dumb so go for it.

>> Tom Merritt: Is it any different than a region free DVD?

>> Molly Wood: Well yeah, exactly.

>> Tom Merritt: A region free DVD player.

>> Molly Wood: Where you're allowed to buy that, it's just really hard to get.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Right? It's not illegal to import a region free DVD player is it?

>> Tom Merritt: I don't think so. I mean there are plenty of places on the shelves here in San Francisco where you could go buy one. I mean it's not like you have to you know, ask for the special offer or anything. They're right there on the shelves.

>> Brian Tong: ...DVD player?

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Or like in [inaudible] Chinatown you have to go ask for the [inaudible].

>> Brian Tong: You guys could get anything in Chinatown.

>> Molly Wood: You can but sometimes like if I go to Chinatown and I ask for the [inaudible], they won't always give it to me.

>> Tom Merritt: Forget it Brian; it's Chinatown.

>> Molly Wood: sometimes I have to go to multiple stores. Alright, onto our emails. Jeffrey wrote in with an awesome, awesome email to say, "I just wanted to let you know that the" well really for me "wanted to let you know that the message length for text messaging was not arbitrarily set by wireless carriers. As the message transmitted in the Mobile Application Part (MAP) of the SS7 signaling protocol which has a maximum length of 140 octets which equates to 160 7-bit characters. Initially developed by BELLCORE (AT&T Labs) to handle inter-switch calls set up in wireline networks in the 70's, the SS7 protocol is now the foundation for almost all wireless services: SMS messaging, Mobility Management and Roaming and Over-The-Air-Activation, voice communication, etcetera. Love, Jeffrey." He didn't say "love" but that's...

>> Tom Merritt: Wow!

>> Molly Wood: Awesome.

>> Tom Merritt: I've got nothing to add to that.

>> Molly Wood: No.

>> Tom Merritt: Been schooled.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah when you know, like you know.

>> Brian Tong: [Laughter]

>> Tom Merritt: Well done Jeffrey.

>> Molly Wood: You know.

>> Tom Merritt: I got another email. It says, "Hey guys, just so you know, on AT&T, IM is charged exactly the same as text messaging. It costs 20 cents per IM sent and received. This also means that with an unlimited data plan, IM is not covered and you still have to pay per message. This is total crap! Especially because unlimited text costs 20 dollars a month. Love the show! Max from Portland."

>> Molly Wood: That is total crap. So [inaudible] only be AT&T.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, so this is a -- he sent a link to the AT&T website where they explain the IM service providers, how you can do Yahoo, AIM, and Windows Live Messengers from certain AT&T phones. And it's available by default, so it's not an app you install. It's just a feature on the phone where you can IM. Think this is different than the app that you can get for I think it's not just for the iPhone, right? I think you can get this app like on Nokia phones. Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Well, I have an AIM app and an ICQ app on my Blackberry.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, okay. So I think...

>> Molly Wood: And I don't think it works that way but I don't know.

>> Tom Merritt: I think those work differently because they're not -- because they're just using the data connection.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: They're not built into the phone as a special app, but I don't know.

>> Molly Wood: That is not cool.

>> Tom Merritt: It does give you pause and yeah just using Instant Messaging on a phone doesn't necessarily get you around the text messaging charges.

>> Molly Wood: If it's an AT&T phone. [Inaudible]

>> Brian Tong: [Inaudible]

>> Molly Wood: I'm not feeling that. Brian wrote in, "Buzz Crew, I've been a PocketPC user for some time. Currently have AT&T 82..." Uh oh. [Inaudible] came up. 8525 running Windows Mobile 6.

>> Tom Merritt: Shows running long.

>> Molly Wood: Have to stretch now. "I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, but I really like Windows Mobile. There are tons of apps available for it, including today plugins, etcetera that can alter the interface to be more icon-based. I have a Bluetooth GPS receiver and have software for turn-by-turn routing. I'm not a fan of the "stock" contacts app, but I found an alternative that works great. Compared to the locked down iPhone and other current alternatives for Smartphones, Windows Mobile phones seem to be much more customizable to my needs. I'm curious as to why you dislike it so much. I certainly would not call it "unusable". Love the show, Bryan."

>> Tom Merritt: Alright.

>> Molly Wood: Well, okay. Brian, you just said that you like it because you can customize it to change all the ways that it works.

>> Tom Merritt: Right.

>> Molly Wood: Like make it more icon-based and make the contacts more customizable in a better sort of contacts app. And I think that like that is all true and that is great. Like the ability to install those apps and not have that locked down environment and change the way the interface works, is -- would indeed make it useable. Out of the box for me though, without those modifications I find it extremely hard to navigate and part of that is that it's not installed on very many touch screen phones. Like I find in general a touch screen phone easier to navigate, even though I just committed to the Blackberry, but -- that's because that Blackberry interface is certainly a lot easier to use for me than Windows Mobile. Like I just...

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah that reminds me of when I got my RAZR. I loved the interface on my little Nokia candy bar phone...

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: ...you know, way back in the day. And then I got the RAZR and I was like, "This interface is awful."

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: And you can -- you could modify it a little which I did, but yeah I mean it's a pain to have to modify your phone interface.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, and certainly like love and hate for interfaces is subjective, but I mean I think even you are saying that it needs some modification -- and when they say Windows Mobile 7 is gonna be more icon-based and a little easier to use, but I just -- I find it extremely clunky: like it's too hard to get stuff done on there, that's all.

>> Tom Merritt: I think that's where Apple does have a good product is in the interface and the interface is really well done.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah, the software.

>> Tom Merritt: Alright, we have lots of other podcasts here at CNET.com, for instance Indecent Exposure.

>> Molly Wood: Yes, our photography podcast.

>> Tom Merritt: Starring Lori Grunin and who's with her?

>> Molly Wood: I don't even know who's on these days.

>> Tom Merritt: Who's with her on that? Yeah.

>> Molly Wood: Cause Phil left.

>> Tom Merritt: It's oh Matt Fitzgerald.

>> Molly Wood: Oh yeah, new guy.

>> Tom Merritt: The new guy. That's right. So you can get that at Indecentexposure.cnet.com and they know their stuff.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah.

>> Tom Merritt: If you're into photography this is the place to go.

>> Molly Wood: And this is the podcast by the way, this is a basically a fan created podcast cause you asked for it on the Mailbag show and we made it happen, so -- so then it's now your duty to go listen.

>> Tom Merritt: Yeah, seriously.

>> Molly Wood: What are you doing? Podcast [inaudible].

>> Tom Merritt: They're like, "I'm listening to it."

>> Molly Wood: I'm listening to it but I'm quitting your show to go listen. You can find all of the show notes for our show as well as the various ways to contact us - phone, email, forums and the what not - at our blog: our little home on the CNET web; BOL.CNET.com. Brian and Tom, thank you very much. [ Inaudible ]

>> Brian Tong: I use to go in there and crash on it.

>> Molly Wood: That was great.

>> Tom Merritt: I appreciate you coming on short notice.

>> Molly Wood: I know.

>> Brian Tong: Thank you.

>> Molly Wood: Yeah thanks.

>> Tom Merritt: Alright, I see you later folks.

>> Molly Wood: Happy weekend. Bye.